have reaction rules settled?

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andyskinner
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have reaction rules settled?

Unread postby andyskinner » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:35 pm

Hi. Attention wandered for a bit, so wanted to see if I've missed it ...

Have the reaction rules settled? I'd like to try again. The idea appeals to me, but I'd like to have some assurance about a couple things:

1) slowing things down: I think not limiting will make this a bit faster. maybe not reacting when a turnover happens will help, too
2) increasing the high/low Quality gap: I'm afraid this will happen. Gang may help the goblins, but I don't want to need a special ability to balance the rules.
3) markers: with the back and forth, we may need to mark both who has activated this turn, as well as who has reacted. I don't like markers.

So what are the current specifics?

thanks
andy



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Andrea Sfiligoi
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Re: have reaction rules settled?

Unread postby Andrea Sfiligoi » Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:29 pm

This is way it is written in the book now:

Reactions (Optional)
When your opponent fails one or more activation dice, you pick up those dice and may immediately attempt to activate one of your figures during the opponent’s turn. This is called a reaction. A reaction is a short burst of activity, a momentary stealing of the initiative, a sudden action that throws a wrench in the works of your opponent’s plan.
Who can react: A figure may react only once during the opponent’s turn. Mark characters who successfully react by putting a game stone next to the figure, or turning the figure so that it faces you. When your turn comes, remove all game stones. Use the following limitations:
{Numbered List}. Prone, bound, transfixed, and mind-controlled figures may not react.
{Numbered List}. Slow figures may use only one die when reacting.
{Numbered List}. Characters who have already successfully reacted during this player turn may not react again.
{Numbered List}. Characters who have attempted to react and failed may try again whenever possible.
A reaction may be used exactly as an action. Since a reaction takes place before the (eventual) action, good tactics include shooting at a charger before he closes on you, moving away from a stampeding animal, or charging a missile-armed foe before he manages to shoot at you.
If a figure fails two or more dice, the opponent has the option to use them as Reactions OR to cause a turn-over, not both.
This rule is optional. Some players think that Reactions complicate the game. Try them a couple of times before deciding whether to use them. Some players prefer LIMITED reactions: only figures within 2 x Long sticks and in LoS of the figure that failed to activate may attempt a Reaction.




Jcrozier
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:04 pm

Re: have reaction rules settled?

Unread postby Jcrozier » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:02 pm

This iteration of the rule looks really good. My only raised eyebrow would be over the prohibition of prone figures reacting. Hoping for a reaction to save a fallen character from certain doom has added a lot of tension to our recent games: will he be able to stand up before the hacking mob does its grisly work? Will he get a chance, and will he make the roll?

The choice of turnover or two reactions is very elegant and irons out the most complicated (to explain) aspect of our house-ruled playtests. For a game with more than two players, a mandatory turnover would make sense, though.

On the slow restriction: this looks good, but presumably there will only be reactions on more than one die when there's a choice of turnover. I wonder if it's even worth having the restriction at all, given that the Slow figure's restriction to one move would still apply. So a giant who was able to react on three dice could move and do a power blow, but not move twice. Isn't this extending Slowness beyond movement to other actions? And won't it very rarely arise and thus be easy to forget? I think "forgettability" is a good test of a rule.

Andy, we used goblins in our last two games and they worked pretty well. The numbers of potential reactors seemed to balance out the lesser chance of a reaction. Once you throw leaders into the mix, the quality tends to balance out anyway, and then having lots of figures who can react meaningfully really helps. So, if you have a bunch of goblins close to the action, there's the opportunity to shoot with one reaction and then shoot lethally at the fallen foe with the next, for example. The Gang trait also means that you can have a lot of models close to the action and ready to help each other out.

Certainly, lower-quality troops are less capable without a leader, but that seems to me to be as it should be. One thing I love about the Ganesha rules is that Orcs behave Orcishly, in that they're menacing with a leader, but prone to flight when he's killed. I always think of certain passages in Tolkien when my goblins flee. It may be small consolation, but at least it rings true!

"Suddenly a sword flashed in its own light. Bilbo saw it go right through the Great Goblin as he stood dumbfounded in the middle of his rage. He fell dead, and the goblin soldiers fled before the sword shrieking into the darkness."

"He scattered the bodyguard and pulled down Bolg himself and crushed him. Then dismay fell on the Goblins and they fled in all directions."

"The orc fell with cloven head. His followers fled howling, as Boromir and Aragorn sprang at them."

"Aragorn smote to the ground the captain that stood in his path, and the rest fled in terror of his wrath."

Labouring the point a bit, but I think SOBH/FiFu does genuinely give you goblins that act like goblins!



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Abyssal Goblin
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Re: have reaction rules settled?

Unread postby Abyssal Goblin » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:37 pm

I allowed Prone models to React, and it made sense, cinematically. The elf warrior was knocked down by the orc beserker, and just as the orc was about to perform a killing blow to the fallen elf, the orc stumbled slightly (failed Activation) and the elf sprang back up in a defensive posture (success Reaction).



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Andrea Sfiligoi
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Re: have reaction rules settled?

Unread postby Andrea Sfiligoi » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:43 pm

Yes I edit so Prone can react, and I took out the Slow reference.



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Abyssal Goblin
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Re: have reaction rules settled?

Unread postby Abyssal Goblin » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:46 pm

Excellent! Can't wait for the next version of the rules to try out.




Jcrozier
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Re: have reaction rules settled?

Unread postby Jcrozier » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:22 am

One thing that came up in our Trapped Under a Mushroom game: if a figure fails two or more activations and is also a warband's last figure to be activated, does the opponent still get the option of reactions, given that the turnover is coming anyway?



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Andrea Sfiligoi
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Re: have reaction rules settled?

Unread postby Andrea Sfiligoi » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:04 am

Yes. That should stop people from"hey i am rolling 3 dice since it is the end of the turn for me anyway"




Jcrozier
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Re: have reaction rules settled?

Unread postby Jcrozier » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:32 am

That makes sense. So something like a Q5, C5 troll remains a risky option rather than a "leave it to the end and let's see" special.




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