Armor, shield etc FINAL version

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Abyssal Goblin
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Re: Armor, shield etc FINAL version

Unread postby Abyssal Goblin » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:37 pm

Can we get some points in place for the new version of Heavy Armor, Melee Block, Block, Expert Block, and Magic Block, please? How long would it take to get the warband calculator updated?



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Andrea Sfiligoi
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Re: Armor, shield etc FINAL version

Unread postby Andrea Sfiligoi » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:03 pm

I am updating the PDF and also sculpting some scenics for Sunday's big test game in Milan (this is one of the main wargaming events in Italy so I must be there with FiFu). I need to sit down and do a final review of the PDF and cut out/add all the missing pieces then I will send the revised trait list to Ray. Generally Ray is very fast and gives me an updated builder in less than a day.



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Abyssal Goblin
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Re: Armor, shield etc FINAL version

Unread postby Abyssal Goblin » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:35 pm

Do you have a rough estimate on the points for Heavy Armor and the Blocks? I would like to generate a couple warbands and test them out soon.



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Rasmus Holbroe
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Re: Armor, shield etc FINAL version

Unread postby Rasmus Holbroe » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:29 pm

I agree on the generic naming. Block is good; it reinforces the idea that these might represent other things than a generic shield, and thus plays well with the rest of SoBH - I am allready imagining a couple of different profiles I want to create with these rules (Fencers with expert block and Evade and Counter? I have a couple of miniatures I'd like to use with that), so thats neat.

We played a game today with the heavy armour basically being this rule, only with the movementstick reduction of previous version, and it worked very nicely. The big mean Chaos Baron I had statted up for the evil side felt appropriately tough, big and mean, so a thumbs up from me.
(Ill write some playtest notes up and post them tomorrow I think.)



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Andrea Sfiligoi
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Re: Armor, shield etc FINAL version

Unread postby Andrea Sfiligoi » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:36 pm

Same point values as the older rules for the moment- just the name changes and the mechanic is as described in this thread.

I do not think the point values can be much different, it's just a matter of putting them in order from the less effective/cheapest to the best/costlier.

I do not use points in my own games and I'd love if people got the hang of it after a few games so that they are not obsessed over point costs. Points give an illusion of balance but it's just a guesstimate. The moment a tree or stone is placed on the battlefield and it affects your characters, all point values become a moot point :-)




Jcrozier
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Re: Armor, shield etc FINAL version

Unread postby Jcrozier » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:38 pm

I think a great way to promote the "points-free" mentality would be to describe it in the "how to play" section at the start of the rules - something like this:

"A good way to set up a game is for one player to design both warbands and let the opponent choose which one to play. The opponent then sets up the table and lets the first player choose where to deploy his forces. The opponent then deploys opposite."



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Abyssal Goblin
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Re: Armor, shield etc FINAL version

Unread postby Abyssal Goblin » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:09 pm

"Points-Free"....hm. That will take me a moment to adjust to that. I know points are never a guaranteed method of providing balance, but there needs to be some way of preventing completely unbalanced warbands.

Andrea, how do you typically create warbands? If "points-free", is there a method you use instead? Such as; only ONE Personality per Warband, only one trait for lowly grunts, two trait max for specialty characters, etc.?



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Andrea Sfiligoi
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Re: Armor, shield etc FINAL version

Unread postby Andrea Sfiligoi » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:16 pm

My method is simple. I create two warbands that fit with the story being told or the scenario, and let my opponent choose which one he wants to play. We often reverse roles in a second game to determine if a band is underpowered.

Next game, my opponent will do the same. We do use the point values as a rough estimate, but do not obsess over the fact that a rule is 2 or 4 points.





Marc Gacy
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Re: Armor, shield etc FINAL version

Unread postby Marc Gacy » Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:11 pm

For Expert Block, what if you have them roll 2 dice and take the better of the two.
The odds are really similar:
1) Roll a 5 or 6 - 0.333333
2) Roll a 4,5, or 6 - 0.5
3) Roll a 5 or 6 on two dice - 0.56 (a little better)
4) Roll a 6 on two dice (Expert Block and being surrounded/knocked down) - 0.31 (a little worse)
Note that 4 should look like 1 if the intent is that the bonus from Expert Block cancels the penalty from being on the ground (it's not clear to me if that is the case).

I like this because I don't have to remember different target numbers for different characters with essentially the same ability, just different numbers of dice.




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